Underground Knowledge — A discussion group - FORBIDDEN HISTORY OF THE BIBLE: Who really is Yahweh (The god from the Old Testament) ? Showing 1-50 of 71 (2024)

message 1: by Adrian (last edited May 21, 2017 11:46AM) (new)

Hi, Folks.

James allowed me to post here, and I'm more than glad to have the opportunity to interact with people merged in the "Underground Knowledge" world. I have a feeling that this is the place in all GoodReads from where the best debate can come when it is about religion and spirituality in general.

Now, the subject I would like to talk about is the identity of the god from the Old Testament in the Bible, Yahweh.

As I consider myself a Gnostic, I'm one of those who don't believe that Yahweh is the loving father who sent Jesus to us. The fathers of Gnosis, like Marcion of Sinope, held the thesis that Yahweh was not the God preached by Jesus. Nowadays, the Christian Churches preaches that Yahweh was the father of Jesus, and that he sent Jesus to save us from own sins, but I don't believe this.

That said, I would like to post here some considerations I've made about my own book, regarding this matter.

Yahweh is not the Christian god, and I propose to prove this, here we go:

When qualifying my book, Angel of Death, I'm not taking the personal point of view path. As much as I have put all my effort and passion into this book, its real and most important aspect is not about my talent, writing style or creativity. This is about the discovery I've made, which is inside this book. It is not something invented by me, it's actually an old thesis held by ancient scholars, I claim no merit for inventing anything, I'm just a humble researcher.

How can I argue with people and convince them that there is really a revelation inside this book? There are many conspiracy theorists claiming to have made great discoveries and many of them lack credibility. How can I convince people that I'm not one of them?

Angel of Death is the result of 12 years of study and even more time of questioning on 2000 years of religion by myself.

This book is the synthesis of the huge puzzle I've been tangled inside since my teens. I've always questioned about the apparent contradictions of the Christian religion. I've always asked how is it possible that the deeds and 'personality' of the god presented in the sacred scriptures of the Old Testament can be so different from Jesus' teachings in the New Testament. How can the god of the first part of the Bible be so vengeful, jealous, cruel and brutal, while Jesus came with a message of love and forgiveness? Nevertheless, the Church tells us that they are Father and Son.

Like many others who came across such questions, I flirted with Atheism when I was a pre-teen, but, inside me, something refused to accept the explanation that everything about religion was just fantasy created by men. Since then, intuition has told me that there was more, so I began my journey, looking for answers.

My book tells something different from what we heard inside churches and when I finally found the answer to this millennial question, a big breakthrough happened in my life, involving everything I knew about Christianity and my spiritual path, which changed me forever.

My thesis states that there is no contradiction in the Christian religion, and Jesus really came to set us free from something, but that 'something' is not what the Church tells us. The god of the Old Testament is not who they say he is, and his real identity must be revealed.

I believe that light must be thrown on modern man’s doubts about Good and Evil, to put at stake the long-standing practice of ignoring how often and how markedly Evil comes from the very source we go after for Good. It is about time.

I'm Adrian Ferrer and I'm not here to praise myself as a writer, but if you believe me and read what is written inside my book, you may find the answer for that which is perhaps the greatest religious mystery of our era and there is a good chance that your view about Christianism will change, once and for all.

I would be happy to discuss this matter with anyone interested.
Not only I propose to prove that Yahweh is not the Christian God, but I also propose to reveal his true identity. This is not a silly attempt to create mystery around my book. I can reveal my thesis to anyone here, though I believe that this should be said in private since some readers don't want to ruin the "surprise".

I've also promised to James that I would not make advertisem*nt for my book here, so if anyone is interested in the book, please contact me for a FREE copy.

Cheers!

message 2: by Ian (new)

My view is that Yahweh is the Aten, the very first example that I know of of monotheism, and when the Jews left Israel with the return of Amun and the other Gods of Egypt, they took the Aten with them and changed its name. Just my opinion.

message 3: by Tim (new)

A fictitious character. Prove me wrong.

message 4: by Adrian (new)

Ian wrote: "My view is that Yahweh is the Aten, the very first example that I know of of monotheism, and when the Jews left Israel with the return of Amun and the other Gods of Egypt, they took the Aten with t..."

Hi, Ian.

This is a thesis I never heard of, though I know about a lot of theories for the origin of Yahweh, some support the idea that he was originated from other's tribes god's, then changed name etc.

Anyway, if it is as you tell, then your thesis directly opposes the Church's official position about this matter, that Yahweh is the father of Jesus, and that there is really a bigger grounding for the term "Judeo-Christian tradition".

message 5: by Adrian (new)

Tim wrote: "A fictitious character. Prove me wrong."

Hi, Tim.

Well, maybe.
My thesis is entirely based on the Bible itself, so if one argues that the entire Book is a piece of fiction, then there is nothing more to be said.

I don't propose to prove the existence or non-existence of any divinity. My main idea is to reason about the official Church's position, which I don't believe.

message 6: by Ian (new)

Hi Adrian,

The good news for me is that directly opposing the Church is no longer a stake-burning offence. Hopefully this group won't tar and feather me :-)

As for the father of Jesus, I can't help but point the finger at Joseph.

message 7: by B. (new)

I agree that Yahweh is not the God of Christianity as it has been posited by many Christina theologians and priests. I grew up Catholic and received an incredible Catholic education only to start asking serious questions by the time I reached Junior year of high school...these questions were met with much enmity. I questioned everything from the concepts of Omniscience and it's possible side effect of pre-destination as well as many other concepts such as Angels mating with women(in genesis!!), Judas' role in the redemption of humanity, and the concept of Jesus' own duality. When I reached college I had an excellent archaeology/ancient history prof who lectured extensively on sources for the Bible like Q and the ancient , as well as pagan, religions and mystery schools which lent heavily to Christianity. Recently, from my own study of Gnosticism, Buddhism, Hinduism, neo-Platonism, etc, I have discovered that I do not believe in much of what was taught to me. I struggle with this as many ideas had been so deeply implanted by my Catholic teachers, but the idea of a demiurge or the concept of one being a metaphorical barrier to enlightenment makes too much sense considering that the Gnostics, Vedic religions and Buddhism mostly believe that salvation lies within ones self and that Jesus himself was preaching this message all along- "the kingdom of heaven is within you" (Luke 17:20-21)

message 8: by Ian (new)

Angels mating with women has serious historical sources, like the flood. It probably started in Sumer, and could not be put down. It is well worth reading the epic of Gilgamesh to see where some of the biblical ideas probably came from.

I certainly do not believe in predestination, and I don't think the bible does either. It makes no sense to be told to sin no more if your future is already written. As for enlightenment, shall anyone ever get there completely? Salvation? What does that mean and what does it imply?

message 9: by James, Group Founder (new)

Doesn't Genesis reference "older Gods" and the Nephilim mating with female humans rather than angels?
I also find it curious that within a supposed universe of there supposedly being only one God, it references in the very first book (Genesis) "older Gods".

I do concede however that differing terms like "older Gods", angels etc, could be due to different translations.

message 10: by B. (new)

Ian I agree on many points. The flood has significance just about every ancient culture...the story did come from somewhere. As for salvation, it is to be worked out by each individual...maybe salvation is only enlightenment and enlightenment is knowing we are but a small part of the ultimate consciousness. I guess that's what we will or will not find out when we die.

James, the nephilim were the offspring of Angels and the daughters of men....they were the "heroes of old" whatever that means. Some take the reference to point to other mythologies like Demi-gods and giants...for me it is only perplexing. The Adam and Eve legend has so many issues e.g. 1)where the hell did Cain go and find a woman to marry if his parents were the literal progenitors of the planet? he went to Nod which literally translates to "wander"....cmon man! Haha. 2)Was the snake a humanoid? The verses literally condemn him to slither upon the ground after his transgression. 3)Why does God speak of himself as "we"? Is be the Elohim or the one true God? So many questions that lead me to believe it's a metaphor for blindness vs gnosis and simply nothing more.

message 11: by Ian (new)

Nick wrote: "Ian I agree on many points. The flood has significance just about every ancient culture...the story did come from somewhere. As for salvation, it is to be worked out by each individual...maybe salv..."

There is a good case that the flood story really arose when the Black Sea filled up as the ice age passed, and it could be one of the oldest stories, say something like 15000 yrs old, and passed down like the Australian aboriginal tales of the dawning. The idea of the "wander" probably comes from Gilgamesh as well, as there is a major "wander" there in the search for immortality. The logic of Cain, though, is hard to follow, although again, in Gilgamesh, we see Gilgamesh, the city king, go off into the wild to find someone who is naked and hence uncivilised, and bring him back to the city - and that did not end well either. Maybe the bible mixed things up a bit.

message 12: by [deleted user] (new)

A pain in one's big toe is infinitely more important than the inflated beasts and gods of ancient peoples.

message 13: by Jim (new)

A lot of people look to the end of the last ice age with all the associating melting as the basis for flood myths. A book I read recently makes a strong case that flood myths are actually much older, before humans left Africa. They could date back any where from 70,000 years to 300,000 years ago.

message 14: by Adrian (new)

James wrote: "Doesn't Genesis reference "older Gods" and the Nephilim mating with female humans rather than angels?
I also find it curious that within a supposed universe of there supposedly being only one God, ..."

They always have a good "translation" excuse. Even when God, in Eden, saw Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit, and said this:

And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." - Genesis 3:22

Also this one, in the creation of mankind...

Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." - Genesis 1:26

The Gnostics have something different to say than "translation issues" about all this...

Ian wrote: "Angels mating with women has serious historical sources, like the flood. It probably started in Sumer, and could not be put down. It is well worth reading the epic of Gilgamesh to see where some of..."

Haha. I once asked a Buddhist monk about salvation and he answered: "Salvation? What is this?"

Nick wrote: "I agree that Yahweh is not the God of Christianity as it has been posited by many Christina theologians and priests. I grew up Catholic and received an incredible Catholic education only to start a..."

The same doubts and questioning I had, though different from you, I did not receive a Catholic education. I think I was born a Gnostic, was baptized in a Catholic church, but my father kept giving me Yoga books to read.

Anyway, Yahweh is not the Demiurge... he is someone else...

The fun thing about all this is that one doesn't need archeology, hidden scriptures, Apocrypha, conspiracy theories or anything else to know the truth.

Researchers spend decades trying to find the answer, but the truth is in the Bible itself. My book uses only the Bible as reference, and the answer IS THERE in the sacred scripture, clear, direct and objective, black in white, white in black, revealed by Jesus himself, in his own words.

message 15: by Jim (new)

The Gnostic idea of the world being created by a demiurge is actually quite ancient. In "The Origins of the Worlds Mythologies," Witzel traced the creation myths back to before the out of Africa time. The common theme was a remote god (deus otiosus) who created younger gods, one of whom created the earth or life on earth.

Sometimes I really wonder if the Renaissance theory of a prisca theologia could be right.

message 16: by B. (new)

It may debatable if Yahweh is the demiurge or not...the idea of "though shall not have other gods before me" which in of itself brings a whole host of questions because the commandment doesn't say I am the only, says "don't put them before me". The hiding of gnosis in the garden from Adam and Eve because the Demiurge is a petty dictator who doesn't want humanity to know the truth of who he is or who they are. Great Gnostic philosophers like Marcion and Maniche definitely identified Yahweh with the demiurge. There are many allusions to his blindness when he asks "what have you done", "where is your brother" "where are you"....the language when read critically is very interesting in pointing to his "dumbness" or "blindness".

YHWH which was always to be unspoken is also associated with the names Jehova and Elohim. Elohim would be several gods as one which may explain the "we" Yaweh uses when speaking to the residents of eden. Regardless of how we look at it, Yaweh has been taken on or co-opted by Christianity as Jesus Heavenly Father and from my study of Gnosticism and proto-Christianity, this couldn't be further from the truth. Jehova was also seen as a warlike God who also has co-opted other religious figures into his mythology like El, Ishtar, Baal, etc...much like the concept of Jesus the resurrected borrow from Greek and Roman traditions of Bacchus and Mithra.

It's fascinating to me as well that when Jesus(the religious Jesus) died, he descended to hell before rising from the dead and ascending to heaven...why did he do this? The Harrowing of Hell was to relieve the righteous souls who died before him. The question is why we're righteous people in hell? If they didn't know about him how could they be punished? This could be metaphorical as well considering Jesus esoterically states in John 3:3 "amen I say to you NO ONE CAN SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD WITHOUT BEING BORN FROM ABOVE" and John 3:13 "NO ONE HAS GONE UP TO HEAVEN EXCEPT THE ONE WHO HAS COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, son of man" . Later in John 5:34 Jesus says "I do not accept testimony from a human being" and 5:41 "I do not accept human praise".

So what the Gnostics and others have interpreted is that Jesus is an emanation of the unknowable God of the Pleroma, not human himself, but a part of something much greater. He is the only way to heaven through gnosticism and marriage of the soul and spirit-therefore it makes sense that righteous men who were fooled by the blind, idiot god(Yaweh/Yaldobaoth/Elohim/Jehova) were not in heaven. From a gnostic point of view this speaks volumes about Yaweh not being Jesus' Heavenly Father.

As for faith, if you are truly gnostic, you don't need it because you already know the truth. If you are Christian then you believe that Yaweh had a conversion with the birth of Jesus. If you are Jewish then you still await the messiah and we have all been duped. I challenge no ones faith or knowledge because it's all a matter of perspective, but I find the scholarly work on this topic so enlightening.

message 17: by Adrian (last edited Jul 06, 2017 06:32PM) (new)

Nick wrote: "It may debatable if Yahweh is the demiurge or not...the idea of "though shall not have other gods before me" which in of itself brings a whole host of questions because the commandment doesn't say ..."

Through my research, I found that Yahweh is not Jehova.

Jehova is the Demiurge, creator of the entire material universe (not only earth but everything else).

Yahweh is another thing, and this is the main point in my book. In the Bible, Jesus vehemently states that Yahweh IS NOT HIS FATHER. More interesting is that, not only Jesus says he is a liar who posed as God, but he also reveals his true identity, and this message is not implicit in the sacred texts, it is actually explicit, with all words, clear and plain.

message 18: by B. (new)

Short addendum...I'm reading from Genesis in the New American Bible(Catholic Bible) Gen 1:26 "then God said: Let us make human beings in our image. Gen 3:5 "God knows well that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like gods who know good and evil". Gen 3:22 "see the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil"

Who is "us"? Who are "gods" which we would be like?

message 19: by Ian (new)

Nick, more to the point, what are these gods like that we should be like them? How do you know? How about the Greek Gods, always running around having their way with various damsels and causing general mayhem?

message 20: by James, Group Founder (new)

Ian, those Greek Gods put in their time and deserved those damsels.

message 21: by B. (new)

Ian, agreed!

message 22: by Adrian (new)

Nick, I've answered your private message, check it out.

message 23: by [deleted user] (new)

Gnosticism was wiped out because it's leaders failed to fully understand the grammar of power. They did not read 'The Prince' and believed religion itself is enough, whereas in essence it is part of the motif of power. The established religions which have survived know about temporal power, about the acquisition of wealth and the importance of diplomacy. They even retain elements of gnosis in their closed communities. They will retain everything of use; soak up every gramme of knowledge, turn everything to their advantage. Hence they survive.

message 24: by Adrian (new)

David wrote: "Gnosticism was wiped out because it's leaders failed to fully understand the grammar of power. They did not read 'The Prince' and believed religion itself is enough, whereas in essence it is part o..."

Actually, David, I believe that Gnosticism is exactly what is must be now.

It would never work as an established religion because that would be like giving caviar to people who can only appreciate fast food.

Gnosticism is there, wide and operative, and it is only accessible for a few people, exactly like it should be.

The more sophisticated and deep is a doctrine, the fewer people it reaches.

The main idea is that for one to reach higher teachings, he must follow a path and develop himself till he is "worthy", then the door will finally be opened for him. It's different from organized religion, which has churches with open doors inviting anyone to enter.

So you get the "caviar/fast food" thing.

message 25: by James, Group Founder (new)

I think we need to differentiate between organized religions and religions.
Religions have always existed: here in Australia, for example, the Aboriginal peoples are 50,000 years old and their intricate spiritual belief system is very ancient.
Theirs is a religion.
So is Gnosticism.

Organized religions are, as David implied, more about power and politics than spirituality. But in my opinion we mustn't confuse the few organized religions that (unfortunately) exist with religions and spirituality....

message 26: by Hyrum (new)

Ancient Sumerians, I’ve read from many sources, are the most ancient society known with enough detail, and they supposedly have a very similar creation story to Christianity/Judaism/Islam. In their story, Enlil is the god over Adam and Eve (slightly different names) and Enlil's brother Enki is compared to a snake. He convinces them to eat of the fruit which lets them know of their nakedness. According to some people's analysis, nakedness was a symbol of bondage in the ancient world. In the Sumerian legend, Enki told adam and eve that Enlil was lying and he just didn't want them to escape their bondage. Enki turned out to be right. Enlil was lying because they didn't die that day.
To people that believe the Bible creation story, Enki is equivalent to the devil who later became Satan in the new testament. In the Sumerian texts, this Satan/Enki person was more friendly towards humanity and Enlil was more belligerent. Let's face it, the god of the old testament, Enlil, was pretty brutal, a jealous and spiteful god for sure. Wouldn’t it be hilarious if all the christians today are actually worshiping the evil brother of the old myths?

message 27: by James, Group Founder (new)

Hyrum wrote: "To people that believe the Bible creation story, Enki is equivalent to the devil who later became Satan in the new testament. In the Sumerian texts, this Satan/Enki person was more friendly towards humanity and Enlil was more belligerent. Let's face it, the god of the old testament, Enlil, was pretty brutal, a jealous and spiteful god for sure. Wouldn’t it be hilarious if all the christians today are actually worshiping the evil brother of the old myths? ..."

What you're proposing is similar to what's been discussed in this discussion thread, I think:

Biblical conspiracy theory re Adam & Eve https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

message 28: by Hyrum (new)

James, thanks for the reference. As a former Christian/Mormon, I find this topic interesting, but only from a historical standpoint.

As far as mythical beings go, Yahweh the god of the OT, was a narcissistic, sad*stic maniac. I can't believe people still worship him/her/it...

message 29: by Jim (new)

I have often wondered why people would create such crap gods. There is a theory that might explain it that I don't completely buy.

Julian Jaynes proposed that consciousness is a recent innovation. He has a very specific definition of that word which includes things like self-reflection. Conscious thought, as he defines it, developed between 2500 and 3000 years ago. Before that, humans had a bicameral mind. The analogues to speech centers in the right brain were literally the voice of their god. He proposes that a god was likely a chief that died and the tribe continued to hear his voice issuing commands in their heads. People didn't really think for themselves. Therefore, the gods we know about are distortions of what were once humans.

That's probably not a great summary of a rather complex thesis but I hope it gets the idea across.

message 30: by Adrian (last edited Jul 12, 2017 06:56PM) (new)

Hyrum wrote: "Ancient Sumerians, I’ve read from many sources, are the most ancient society known with enough detail, and they supposedly have a very similar creation story to Christianity/Judaism/Islam. In their..."

:)

You got, it Hyrum. You ruined the surprise of my book.

The interesting thing is that you don't need any Apocrypha or hidden manuscript to prove it. It is there, said with all words, by Jesus himself, in the Bible, the official Bible, the Canon.

SPOILER ALERT.

Yes, Yahweh is the fallen angel, HE IS SATAN.

This is literal, Jesus states this clearly, plain, directly, in one of his speeches in the New Testament

The character portrayed as Satan in the Bible is a scapegoat, just one of the evil spirits that Yahweh ruled. The real owner of this name is YAHWEH himself, and Jesus came to defeat him and release the Jews from his brutal rule. This is all explained by the Bible scriptures. And you can analyze it from a historical/scientific point of view, no need to be a believer. Just stick with what is written.

Repeating, the real name of Yahweh is SATAN, he is the fallen angel who was expelled from heaven.

message 31: by Hyrum (new)

Sorry for ruining the surprise in your book, but the spoiler will soon be buried in this discussion's comments...

I added your book to my want to read list. I want to read it when I'm done writing the final installment of my trilogy.

Hyrum wrote: "Sorry for ruining the surprise in your book, but the spoiler will soon be buried in this discussion's co

Is Jehovah a cruel War God?

SOME readers of the Bible have long accused Jehovah of being a war god, and a bloodthirsty one at that. For example, George A. Dorsey, in his book The Story of Civilization​—Man’s Own Show, claims that the God of the Bible, Jehovah, “is the God of plunderers, of torturers, of warriors, of conquest, of every savage passion.” Bible critic Roland H. Bainton pointedly says: “War is more humane when God is left out of it.”

Is Jehovah really a war god? Does he, as some suggest, actually enjoy slaughtering innocent people?

Past Judgments

True, the Bible candidly relates Jehovah God’s past adverse judgments. However, they were always against ungodly people. For example, it was not until the earth of Noah’s day became “filled with violence” that Jehovah said: “Here I am bringing the deluge of waters upon the earth to bring to ruin all flesh in which the force of life is active.” (Genesis 6:11, 17) Regarding another judgment, it was only because the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah had “abandoned themselves to sexual immorality and were bent on perverted sensuality” that God caused it to “rain sulphur and fire.”​—Jude 7, The New Berkeley Version; Genesis 19:24.

Did God relish bringing all flesh to ruin in Noah’s day? Or did he derive some fiendish pleasure from destroying the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah? For an answer, let us look at the events surrounding the Flood of Noah’s day. After stating that God would wipe wicked mankind off the surface of the ground in order to cleanse the earth of violence, the Bible says: “Jehovah . . . felt hurt at his heart.” Yes, it grieved God that “every inclination of the thoughts of [man’s] heart was only bad all the time.” Hence, to save as many as possible from the impending Deluge, God dispatched Noah, “a preacher of righteousness,” to sound a warning message and to build an ark for preservation.​—Genesis 6:3-18; 2 Peter 2:5.

In like manner, before sending angels to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, God said: “I propose to go down and see whether or not they have done all that is alleged in the outcry against them . . . I am determined to know.” (Genesis 18:20-32, The Jerusalem Bible) Jehovah assured Abraham (whose nephew Lot lived in Sodom) that if His search revealed just ten righteous men, the cities would be spared. Would a God that delights in spilling blood have such merciful concern? On the contrary, could we not say that one of the dominant personality traits of Jehovah is mercy? (Exodus 34:6) He himself says: “I take delight, not in the death of the wicked one, but in that someone wicked turns back from his way and actually keeps living.”​—Ezekiel 33:11.

Adverse judgments from God have always resulted because wicked people adamantly refuse to abandon a bad course, not because Jehovah enjoys killing people. But you may wonder, ‘Did not Jehovah encourage the Israelites to war with the Canaanites and to annihilate them?’

God’s Wars Needed for Peace

History paints a sordid picture of Canaanite life​—they were exceedingly wicked. Spiritism, child sacrifice, sad*stic violence, and various forms of perverted sex worship were the order of the day. As a God of justice who exacts exclusive devotion, Jehovah could not allow these disgusting practices to disrupt the peace and security of innocent people, especially Israel. (Deuteronomy 5:9) For example, imagine if the community in which you live was without a reputable police force or militia to enforce the laws of the land​—would that not lead to anarchy and violence of the worst kind? Similarly, Jehovah was compelled to act against the Canaanites because of their licentiousness and the real danger they posed to pure worship. Therefore, he decreed: “The land is unclean, and I shall bring punishment for its error.”​—Leviticus 18:25.

Divine justice was carried out when God’s executional forces​—the Israelite armies—​destroyed the Canaanites. The fact that God chose to use humans to carry out this judgment, rather than fire or flood, did not diminish the sentence. Thus, when warring with the seven nations of Canaan, the Israelite armies were instructed: “You must not preserve any breathing thing alive.”​—Deuteronomy 20:16.

As a respecter of life, however, God did not sanction indiscriminate killing. For example, when the residents of one Canaanite city, Gibeon, asked for mercy, Jehovah granted it. (Joshua 9:3-27) Would a vicious war god have done this? No, but a God who loves peace and justice would.​—Psalm 33:5; 37:28.

Jehovah’s Standards Promote Peace

Time and again, the Bible associates God’s blessing with peace. That is because Jehovah is a lover of peace, not war. (Numbers 6:24-26; Psalm 29:11; 147:12-14) Consequently, when King David desired to build a temple of worship to Jehovah, God told him: “You will not build a house to my name, for a great deal of blood you have spilled on the earth before me.”​—1 Chronicles 22:8; Acts 13:22.

While on earth, the Greater David, Jesus Christ, spoke of a time when God’s love of justice would no longer allow him to tolerate the present-day evil we see. (Matthew 24:3, 36-39) As he did in the Flood of Noah’s day and in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, God will soon take judicial action to rid the earth of selfish, wicked men, thus paving the way for peaceful conditions to exist under his heavenly Kingdom rule.​—Psalm 37:10, 11, 29; Daniel 2:44.

Clearly, Jehovah is not a war god who lusts for blood. On the other hand, he does not shrink back from exacting judicial punishment when it is due. God’s love of goodness requires that he act in behalf of those who love him by destroying the wicked system that oppresses them. When he does so, true peace will flourish earth wide as the truly meek ones unitedly worship Jehovah, “the God of peace.”​—Philippians 4:9.

message 33: by James, Group Founder (new)

Kodai wrote: "The Hebrew perspective is that YHWH or Tetragrammaton was the name given to Ain Sof (the Infinite being/intelligence). The concept goes back at least to Akkadia/Sumeria/Babylon in the form of the titles "EL" (meaning God). Hebrew names for G-d like Elohim (God of many/Lord of Hosts), or ElShaddai (Almighty God) lend credence to this.
The being called YHWH is not Jesus and is not related to Jesus directly in the Hebrew. ..."

Thanks for the Jewish perspective, Kodai.
I sense many researchers in the West, especially those of or formerly from the Christian religion, tend to completely overlook or else gloss over what Judaism says about such things.
And yet most of this stuff stems directly from Judaism...
Go figure!

message 34: by Danny (new)

Yahweh is the Father of Jesus.
See Acts 3:13 KJV
"The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our
fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus..."
Repent!

message 35: by J. (new)

I've been reading Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan, in it Day makes an etymological and historical case for the God and the Heavenly Host of the Old Testament being a derivation of the Canaanite Pantheon. Specifically, he points out that El is the name of the chief Canaanite deity and Yaweh appears to be the name of a semetic deity which was worshipped in or around Midian. He hypothesizes that a breakaway sect of Canaanites conflated the two as their new monotheistic god, and became the Hebrews.

message 36: by Jim (new)

I read that the first mention of the name was found in Egyptian texts referring to a local god of the Jordan area. Apparently, he started as a war god until he got a promotion to creator god and then the one god.

Based on the Pentateuch, with the Jahwist and Elohist authors, El and Yahweh got merged or were syncretized at some point.

message 37: by James, Group Founder (new)

Danny wrote: "Repent!"

No chance.

message 38: by Bonnie (last edited Jul 08, 2019 08:05PM) (new)

Ian wrote: "Hi Adrian,

The good news for me is that directly opposing the Church is no longer a stake-burning offence. Hopefully this group won't tar and feather me :-)

As for the father of Jesus, I can't he..."

I have to agree with that assessment. Jesus was a man. He was therefore born of Mary and Joseph. There is no reason to assume otherwise, regardless of Church assertions. However, I think that as humans born of humans, we can still have an ineffable soul, which is a spark of light directly from the Great Spirit. I think God created both the visible and the ineffable universe - I am hopeful that he did create angels, and unfortunately, demons as well...because the universe is a balanced creation, and all great stories have both a protagonist and an antagonist. Every truly great story has a tremendous plot that requires both "winners" and "losers", "Good" and Evil" could be determined by the methods deployed to win, and the nature of the loss. Every good story has a hero and a dreadful adversity. I think the Great Spirit has probably created many such stories...outcomes may differ in each one.

message 39: by Eloy (new)

Evil Religions Unmasked
Hi, Adrian and everyone.

My name is Eloy Colombo, and I’m here to share with you a work I have done with all caress about the Abrahamic religions, that is, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. It was the search of my life.

I think that, like me, many of you always feel and thought that something is wrong in our culture; when we read with an open mind the bible’s texts, soaked in human blood, full of hatred but at the same telling about love it’s hard not to think that there are many things wrong there.

So, after decades studying many subjects, from history, economics, philosophy, theology, and ancient culture, specifically the Egyptian (yes, all the ways lead us there), I dared to challenge the Abrahamic religions.

I maintain, discuss, and answer many things like these:
-Christianity was responsible for destroying Roman and ancient Egyptian civilizations. It was not only the destruction of the Roman Empire, as many scholars think, only a religion like an Abrahamic one could have made such a thing as to vanish a civilization.
-In theology, it’s interesting to know how weak the Abrahamic theology is; there is almost no theology in Abrahamic religions! They not even can ask one of the most important theological questions, “who are the apparitions who have shown themselves to the so-called prophets?”
-Who would say that the mothers of modern atheism were the Abrahamic religions!
-And likewise, materialistic theories are their daughters too.
-If it is not enough, why not analyze the Abrahamic texts and their sources? I found it undeniable that they came from ancient Egyptian literature. The Old Testament from fictitious, fancy, and folk Egyptian literature and the New Testament clearly got sourced in some sacred Egyptian texts. Thus, are we facing the biggest fraud in human history?
-And I finished all of this discussion in a well-done conclusion that is there waiting for your reading.

I called my book “Evil Religions Unmasked.” I’m inviting you to read it on NetGalley, or I can upload your email on Google Play as a reviewer; if you want the latter option, send me a message, please.

I also made a website where you can watch a cinematic book trailer and read more about my path toward my accomplishments: wecolombo.com
There you have the link directly to the book on NetGalley.

I think that my work will add a lot to the debate about Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, and I’m looking forward to your thoughts.

I've come to the same conclusion about yahweh, I'm very interested in your points in the thesis and your thoughts on Marcion

Do you think you could reach out to me with your literature and notes?

Quite intrigued to see what you've found

I came to know that Yahweh is an Anunnaki god Enlil whose teachings were against his brother Enki , The Serpent God also known as Lucifer.
Some also claim Yahweh is a Sirian ET.
Yahweh wants to create one God against Polytheism in order to conquer Earth in the name of One World Religion.

These Alien species won by dividing us in creating religions on different locations suppressing our true identity that we are Soul beings like them.

We were trapped by same ETs into this 3-Dimensional world by erasing our memories and through process of Reincarnation.

message 42: by Stella (new)

Dear Adrian,
I can’t wait to start reading your book. I can’t thank you enough for writing about this fascinating subject. You said that I could get the book for free, but I don’t know how. Would you please help me?
Thanks again!
Stella Logan

message 43: by Bonnie (last edited Oct 09, 2020 09:29PM) (new)

Bonnie wrote: "Ian wrote: "Hi Adrian,

The good news for me is that directly opposing the Church is no longer a stake-burning offence. Hopefully this group won't tar and feather me :-)

As for the father of Jesus..."

Ian, I am surprised to read what you had to say about the humanity of Jesus, etc. What you shared here is essentially what I believe about Jesus (he was a man, born of man & woman) ... etc. Much of what you shared here is what I share with my family when I talk about it (I don't talk about it very often - devout Christians become disturbed and annoyed (my sister lectures me on the divinity of Jesus from time to time).

message 44: by Bonnie (new)

A further note on the Akkadians (Yale publication) ... I was able to darken the print a bit so I could read this publication --- As I was married to a Semitic Hebrew (I hate using the term "Jew" because it became such a negative epithet after Hitler vilified them)(and I don't think they deserved that, either). I have a nice readable copy of the piece on my desktop now. It will take some time getting through it, but hopefully I can read it in a couple days.

I'm not Jewish, personally - my ethnicity derives from German and Irish immigrant. My grandmother was German, and she had some negative opinions of Jews. I had never met one until I was introduced to my future husband when I was 20 years old (in Los Angeles at the time). He had very distinctive features, including olive brown skin and shiny black hair. Not African American though - but very distinctive looking. (In any case, my last name is an artifact of my previous husband. He has passed away recently, but I still have affection for him. (I've been lucky so far - I haven't encountered anyone who hates Jews, although perhaps they wouldn't make that obvious to me, if they did.)

message 45: by Bonnie (last edited Oct 18, 2020 09:00PM) (new)

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

I have stumbled across a new book that has a surprising title! The book is Sci-Fi genre, but the story content is straight out of 2020 presidential politics (sort of) ... with a really interesting twist.
Title: "Philip K. Dick Is Dead, Alas" ... Author: Michael Bishop.
For those who are not familiar with Philip K. Dick, he was a prolific, and very talented writer of Speculative Fiction (what old folks like me still call "Sci-Fi"...). He has passed away, according to what I've read in Goodreads about him, related to this new book.

In any case, the novel deals with the political scene that we are dealing with right now -- in that the president (who happens to be Richard Nixon) has been holding office for 4 administrations (16 years) ... and he had become an authoritarian despot - as people like him tend to do. Philip K. Dick shows up well after his expiration date, and works with the Resistance Forces to deal with the tyrant in the White House.

The book review indicates that there's a bit of humor in the plot line. Not having read the book yet, I can only guess what will be the outcome, but I am eager to find out. I think the plot deals with all the touchy news we're dealing with now, the BLM resistance effort, the Republican resistance, the president's lies, all of that. Should be an interesting read. (Might be prognosticative, too.) Hard times at the O.Kay Corral, I think.

message 46: by Jim (new)

That sounds like it was inspired by PKD's Radio Free Albemuth.

message 47: by Bonnie (new)

Now that I've shared my excitement about the new Sci-Fi novel "Philip K. Dick Is Dead, Alas" -- I'd like to share some thoughts on the previous topic of "Yahweh" ...
I've seen the video historical speculations on Annunaki and Enlil -- which were rather amazing -- My impression of these stories is that the creator/author of the videos thinks that Earth was "colonized" by ancient aliens who did some creative development on the native primate species, thus creating humankind - and provided us with a mythology to explain their presence in our world. If that was the case, indeed, then any speculations about our mythology and our religions would have to take into consideration that a good amount of our spiritual indoctrination was at the whim of aliens who wanted humans to do the work that they were assigned, and not rebel against the Master Race...the spiritual teaching were a convenient means to keep the natives docile and working hard, yes?

If that is the true nature of our early origins, then we have a lot of adjustments to make to get past the "programming" we received. It throws into question all our spiritual beliefs.

However, if there really were no Alien Conquerors and therefore no "tinkering" with human evolution and spiritual indoctrination, then we need a different interpretation of what we are, and what we believe.

I'm inclined to think that the Universe as we know it is an entity that has sentience in at least some of its parts. That's easy to believe since we have sentience right here on planet earth. Since it's Here, it must be Elsewhere as well... and lots of places.

I'm also inclined to think that such a Being that could be at the core of the universe would thus have more interest in nurturing, observing, protecting, and destroying planets or planetary systems, based on what It observes happening in those like our own, which have living beings doing things that could be either formative or destructive, depending on their developmental experiences.

A being as enormous as a universal entity might well take greater interest in communicating with the worlds within it's universal being than, rather than try to communicate with the myriad of little conscious beings on any one planet. Perhaps in some ineffable way that we cannot begin to appreciate here, there is some form of "consciousness" at the planetary level.

In that case, it's possible to contemplate the concept of "Mother Earth" as a living being at a level that we can't articulate, with our limited human perception, but which might be explorable and perhaps even provable at some time in our future.

message 48: by Jim (new)

Julian Jaynes had a hypothesis that humans used to have a voice in their head before we as a species achieved consciousness. This voice came from the right hemisphere. At various times, the voice could be interpreted as a personal god or the voice of a dead chieftain or ancestor. It was the dead that evolved into gods.

Many dismiss this idea outright without understanding that Jaynes had a very specific definition of consciousness. If you read his book, he lays out a pretty good case. Ultimately, I'm not sure he's right but it's an interesting idea.

message 49: by Bonnie (new)

Thanks, Julian, for sharing this bit of perspective from the "Forbidden History of the Bible" -- I've actually seen a reference to this kind of personal inner experience elsewhere in some book that I read. I don't know whether humans can hear a disembodied secondary voice in their heads now or not. I believe that human could have heard such a voice in our ancient past.

However, I know know that I "talk to myself" in a form of inner voice from time to time. I reason out questions and dilemmas verbally in my head. Once in a very long while, I will "hear" an inner voice in my head suggesting a solution to an issue -- or a response to a dilemma that I'm dealing with -- a little voice that sounds somewhat like me, but sometimes it sounds like someone else entirely.

I've never been able to engage in an "inner conversation" with that little voice. It sometimes speaks up to resolve an issue or answer a question that has moral or spiritual dimensions. That's all I can say about it. But I do have recollections of having such internal communications from time to time (rarely, and indefinitely, but "real" to me in some ineffable way). Sometimes I think that these communications are simply my internal problem solving mental capacity - but at other times, I have a sense that I'm being "guided" to respond to an issue or a dilemma or a situation by what I've labeled as my Guardian". Whatever it is, I'm aware of it, and I don't think of it as just an aspect of my "self".

message 50: by Austin (new)

Some would say that there is a spiritual realm full of lively speakers. The problem is that if those people ever admit to hearing them , they are immediately discounted, stripped of credibility, heavily medicated, and often locked away or find the experience so overwhelming that they can’t function as they once did and end up on the streets. Some of today’s schizophrenics are what would have been ancient prophets in biblical eras. So many people claim to believe in God but if God actually speaks to someone and that person shares the experience he often loses all credibility in their minds. Personally I think that there is much we can learn from the supposedly mentally ill, such as the rich depth of experience that they seem capable of drawing from their mind-consciousness-awareness. 🤷‍♂️