The Lady of the Manners will be honest, Snarklings: she’s been holding onto this reader question for a while, because there are many different things to address, and the Lady of the Manners felt a little overwhelmed and freely admits that she won’t be able to cover everything or delve very deeply into the parts she does cover.
I found your site interest [sic] and by mistake. Great site. Was looking up ”˜why guys like goth girls.’ Maybe you can answer that question for me real quick like. Anyway thanks for all what you do.
(An aside: The Lady of the Manners is going to use “guys” as a shorthand for male-presenting folks, and “girls” for those who present as female.)
First things first: there are a lot of relationships where one of the people identify as goth, but their partner doesn’t. It has nothing to do with “liking goth girls/guys”, but is that the non-goth was attracted to the other person for many reasons. The Lady of the Manners’ dear husband isn’t a goth, and she knows his preliminary interest wasn’t about her being a spooky creature of the night, but about who she was as a person.
- Aesthetics. Goth has a striking look, and many people are attracted to it. Many goths like to date other goths, and even people who don’t consider themselves aligned with the subculture are fascinated by the black clothes and darkly decadent look. (This is part of the reason why fashion designers and cosmetic companies are inspired by stylistic elements of the goth aesthetic season after season.)
- Weirdness. This, in the Lady of the Manners’ experience, tends to apply to guys, and especially ones who aren’t part of the goth subculture or don’t know a lot about it. To them goth girls are “weird”, and therefore exciting. The guy may think that having a goth girlfriend makes him seem cooler or more interesting. “Look how open-minded I am”, he may think, “I’m dating a girl totally unlike me, and she’s so weird!”
And in some cases the weirdness factor goes hand in hand with ”¦
- Perceived promiscuity and kinkiness. Goth fashion, especially on the feminine side, borrows a lot of stylistic notes from fetish fashion: Corsets, fishnets, bondage collars, perilously high stiletto heels, and so on. There’s nothing wrong with that. But guys, especially ones who aren’t part of the subculture, may associate those fashions with sex and sexual kinks, and automatically assume that any woman wearing those things will be easy to pick up for sex, and will probably be interested in doing “weird stuff”.
Let the Lady of the Manners be very clear: there is nothing wrong with having casual sex or sexual kinks as long as everything is consensual and safe. But there are guys out there who assume any goth girl is fair game, and deliberately go to goth clubs on this assumption. The mildest form of this is “just” objectifying any goth girl, but that assumption frequently leads to unwanted attention and the ignoring of boundaries.
Sadly, it’s not just guys outside of the goth community who do this; we have creepers inside the crypt, too. And in a way, the Lady of the Manners finds that even more disheartening. People who belong to the community and subculture should understand the social nuances and cues that are part of it and not tolerate any level of sexually predatory behavior.
You may think the Lady of the Manners is being a bit overbearing in using the term sexually predatory behavior. She’s not. Some people scoff at the idea of goth clubs and events being spaces where people feel safe, and declare that if you’re going to a club, you should expect to be propositioned and touched. No. That’s not appropriate anywhere, but especially in a community for people who feel outside of the “normal” world.
So while this is a bit of a tangent from the original “why do guys like goth girls” question, this is information the Lady of the Manners believes is vitally important. What should you do if you are the target of inappropriate attention while at a goth club?
- If you go to the club with friends, decide on code words or gestures to use to signal that one of you needs backup. If the creeper tries to engage with you, one of your friends should step in and start a conversation with you that pointedly ignores the creeper, and/or walk you to another area in the club.
- Tell one of the club employees, preferably a bouncer. At the least, the bouncer should keep an eye on the creeper. Hopefully the bouncer would go have a word with the creeper, or even remove them from the club.
- A “whisper network”. While the Lady of the Manners is all for a public Name and Shame approach for predators, that can backfire and lead to a “he said/she said” storm of nonsense. Which means that private conversations and warnings about people to be wary of is invaluable. Back when the Lady of the Manners went to clubs regularly, she was part of a group of women who kept an eye out for new attendees – especially any younger ones! – and gave them a quick warning. “He’ll stare at you creepily all night. That one will try and have uncomfortably inappropriate conversations with you. That one is someone to be wary of in general.”
Creepers and sexual predators are a blight upon our subculture, and should not be tolerated even slightly. If someone attempts to defend this behavior, ask if the person they’re defending behaves in a manner that Morticia and Gomez Addams would approve of.
So in short: some guys like goth girls because they’re also part of the subculture. Some guys like goth girls because they’re “strange and unusual”. Some guys like goth girls because of sketchy assumptions about the behavior of goth girls in general.
What about you, Snarklings? Can you think of other reasons why guys may like goth girls? Additional advice on how to deal with creepers? The comments are open! (And moderated with an iron fist inside a velvet glove, to no one’s surprise.)
